Networking Your Way Into Your Dream Role with Chelsey Bonilla | Ep054

Manuel Martinez: Welcome everyone, my name is Manuel Martinez and this is another episode of Career Downloads where each episode I basically hit the refresh button, bring on a different guest to learn more about their background and their experiences, to really try and uncover any actionable advice that you can use as you’re managing your own career. So I’m excited for today’s episode because I have with me Chelsey Bonilla and her and I have, over the last, probably close to a year now, have developed a both professional and personal relationship, just kind of getting to know each other. And ike I’ve mentioned before, there’s different areas of technology. So she didn’t feel that she works in technology, but she really does. So again, I just kind of want to help, I hope that her story kind of helps dispel some of those myths. And we get to learn a little bit more of how she’s navigated it, and hopefully find some things that will be helpful for you. So with that, I’ll go ahead and introduce Chelsea.

Chelsey Bonilla: Thank you, Manny. I appreciate all the time and consideration and overthinking that you’ve allowed me to have over the last year.

Manuel Martinez: And I appreciate that it kind of, it took time because you’re not the only person that, it takes a little bit to be like, “Well, wait a minute, why me? Why my story?” it’s not something that you do all the time, right? I don’t see you on podcasts all the time or kind of speaking out publicly. So I think this is good because I’ve had a couple of guests like that. And it it helps other people see like, “Okay, it’s not just me.”

Chelsey Bonilla: Right, yeah, absolutely. I mean, we met for coffee, you emailed me questions, we had in-person conversations. So on the scale of overthinking, I think I’m on the high end. So I appreciate you indulging me throughout the year.

Manuel Martinez: No problem. So if you don’t mind as we get started, if you just kind of tell me a little bit about where you grew up and then eventually kind of what led to you starting your career.

Chelsey Bonilla: Absolutely, so I love the story of where I grew up because I actually grew up in Las Vegas. So born and raised never left. And I like to say that because growing up in Vegas, born and raised here, not very far from where we are right now, I’ve kind of seen the growth of the city, seen the change of the environment, but I’m also a double alum from UNLV. And I knew coming out of high school that I wanted to go to UNLV. And when I went back to get my MBA, I knew UNLV was where I wanted to go. And that never left, not to say if someone leaves there’s anything wrong with that, but a lot of people that I grew up with left to UNR, left out of state. And I just, I truly have an affinity for Nevada. And I knew UNLV was my school. So that’s kind of my education. And then starting in my professional career, I started working at the young age of 15, which is crazy to say. So I started working at 15. I worked for a small mom and pop shop here in Vegas, a school uniform company. And I was the right hand to the CEO. So I would do everything from payroll to training, to hiring, to operations, to, I was the controller. I would do bookkeeping. So it was this amazing experience to get exposure to business. 15 to 17, I was basically supporting and helping from a business perspective. So then when I started at UNLV, what am I gonna do with the rest of my life? I naturally gravitated towards a business degree. So I graduated with a bachelor’s degree in business. And it was amazing because I would take these concepts from class, I would come back to the business and say, “Hey, what if we tried this? What if we created a social media account? What if we did marketing campaigns? What if we changed the way our strategy looked?” So it was this amazing playground where the CEO would let me come back with concepts and kind of grow those organically within the business. And then when I graduated with my bachelor’s degree, working through the entirety of my bachelor’s degree, going back to school, I knew I wanted to get my MBA. So I went through the executive MBA program at UNLV, which was great because it was unique to the standard MBA tract because I was with a cohort. So I was with 18 other individuals who are still friends to this day, seven years after graduation. And it was just such an eyeopening experience that really led to my journey and the evolution of my professional career.

Manuel Martinez: What is it about that CEO? And do you think it was just them kind of seeing you grow up and knowing that you’re pursuing this business degree, that they gave you the ability to kind of implement a lot of these changes that you wanted to go through because sometimes there’s business owners or just maybe the businesses, it’s so established that they’re like, “No, we’re not gonna do that.” Or, “Hey, that’s great in theory or in a classroom that would never work in an actual business setting.” So is it you communicating, not just like, “Hey, we should do this,” because I’m sure you weren’t just like, “Let’s implement this.” And they were like, “Sure, let’s do it.” You had to kind of build a business case. So what was that kind of interaction like?

Chelsey Bonilla: Yeah, that’s a great question. And I love the term business case because I think as IT professionals, we use that all the time. And thinking back 15 years ago, I didn’t even know I was building a business case to why should we do this? So there was a lot of trust that the CEO had in me I think because I was with the business for so long. So I ended up working there for 10 plus years. And just over that time, it allowed me to build that trust with her. So I could come and I could say, “Here’s an idea. Here’s what I’d like to implement.” She was great at building the business, but she didn’t have the college education. So me coming with, “Hey, this is what I’m learning at school. I don’t know if it’ll work, but maybe we could try it.” And there was a lot of freedom for me to kind of try different things and work with the team and say, “Hey, let’s try this. Let’s see if it works.” So like building employee manuals was something that I had so much fun with. And it was the first time the organization ever had an employee manual. So it was like that compliance and that documentation was things that I was learning that I could bring back and then were valuable to the business. And she saw the value as I would execute on those things.

Manuel Martinez: And my guess is though, that not every idea was a success.

Chelsey Bonilla: Absolutely.

Manuel Martinez: And when it didn’t, how did you Did you take it personal or kind of, it sounds like you had a good relationship so that when it didn’t work, how do you determine, “Hey, this isn’t working as opposed to, we just need to keep trying harder.”

Chelsey Bonilla: I’m definitely the beat a dead horse. Like there’s nothing I can’t try hard enough to accomplish. But I think the older I’ve gotten, the better I’m at at taking constructive criticism. But there were multiple times where I was like, “Well, maybe we just tweak it slightly, or maybe we try it differently.” And I still think it’s gonna work. And there would be times where it’d be like, “Well, let’s table that idea, but I’m not gonna let it go. But we’re gonna bring it up in the future. But I understand it doesn’t make sense for the business at this time.” So there were definitely those moments where I had to let things go. And that was definitely part of the learning experience. Every idea is not gonna work and it’s okay to fail. And it’s okay to grow from those failures and make changes.

Manuel Martinez: So then now you’re working here for 10 plus years. You basically grew up here. You’ve learned a lot both in school and in practice, which a lot of times people don’t get, right? They’re looking for internships. Now it was a small business, but I think it gave you the flexibility to kind of tweak and learn a lot of that. So what made you decide, “Okay, it’s time to kind of leave this environment where I grew up and try and go out for my next venture.”

Chelsey Bonilla: So that was, I would say, a key part of the Executive MBA. So going into the Executive MBA, you go through an interview process, you have to have 10 plus years of management experience. And I was the second youngest in the cohort of 18. And I was, I think, the only one who had only had one job. So it was incredibly eye-opening going into the MBA and just seeing the scope of work that people had gone through and the different industries and the exposure that I had. And it was one of those moments where your eyes were open to the potential of the world and you kind of couldn’t go back. So going through my bachelor’s degree, I was working full-time at this operational job. I was a server off the strip, paying for my education. Going into my MBA, I had to take a step back and just focus on work and school. And then when I graduated, it was kind of that what’s next. And I remember going to a networking event at the end of my graduation. And there was an entrepreneur there. And I was the first one to the party. I always loved being on time. We had a conversation right when I walked into the party and he goes, “Okay, you graduate with your MBA, what’s next?” And I said, “I want more. I just don’t know what more is.” And he handed me his business card and said, “Send me your resume, I’d love to talk.” And that naturally led to me jumping into IT. So I left operations and I joined this entrepreneur, CEO, who was managing his own family business. And he was an entrepreneur for the entirety of his life. So I was the chief operations officer for that organization and we would develop different products. We’d monetize them. We would pitch them to investors and it was just a total whirlwind. And I had no experience in IT. So I remember having my OneNote with all my IT acronyms, no idea what anybody was talking about half the time. I would Google at the end of the night, what does Scrum mean? What is Agile? And I was managing a team of developers, which is crazy to think, not really knowing some of these methodologies, but understanding operational and business processes and then learning IT along the way. So that was my jump from small business into startup and IT. And it was just a crazy experience from there over a three-year period.

Manuel Martinez: Going and being, overseeing a bunch of developers, right? And not having that background. But one of the things I think is probably important there and it sounds like, especially if you’re developing, you know, employee manuals and things, you know, at your previous employment, is that kind of what this person saw in you and said, “Okay, they figured IT and I’ve seen this now more throughout my career.” You know, people think, “Oh, well, I don’t know much of, you know, I’ve been in IT, I’m a network person, I can’t go to security or I can’t go do this.” But if you’re a person who likes to learn, it sounds like you did a lot of that. It’s the people part that is, sometimes it’s a little bit harder to teach. So they saw that, “Oh, she has, you know, communication skills, obviously you made a good impression.” Do you think that’s what led you there with him? And then he said, “She can learn the IT stuff.”

Chelsey Bonilla: Absolutely, yeah. He had been in IT, still in IT for the entirety of his career, but the people skills, the time management and managing teams, I think was the key pieces that I had. And he’s also the visionary, so he would have these big grandiose visions, and this is the idea, and execute. And I was and am very good at taking, okay, I hear you, but now we need to build a step-by-step plan, and how are we actually going to execute on this vision? So I think that was the key piece from an operational perspective that allowed me to succeed in that role. And a lot of people don’t love the compliance and the documentation and the note taking, and that is my bread and butter. I love those things. So I think that was another piece that nicely complemented the visionary to the operational side of things.

Manuel Martinez: And as far as the structure goes, like you said, note taking, documentation, I’ll be honest, I’m one of those people, I don’t enjoy it, but I do know the value of it. So I will document the work I have, not because I enjoy it, but because I know if it’s documented, I can then hand it off.

Chelsey Bonilla: Yes. Whereas you seem to enjoy the documentation part of it, and is that something, did you learn that going through school, is that something you learned working early as a 15-year-old in business? Where did that understanding of how important it is, and then it sounds like eventually you developed a love for it?

Chelsey Bonilla: I would say it’s my learning style, even thinking back to high school, I was always the person with the big notebooks, and I would take a lot of notes, and the way that I retain best is if I’m physically writing something, so I think that is the origin of my love of note taking, and then looking through my, throughout my career, thinking of what that looks like later on, I’ve always gone into roles with the goal of, if the worst case happened to me, or if it’s time for me to move on, I like to build that documentation, so it’s easy to hand off the history. I never wanted to feel like all of the knowledge of a role lived within my head. It’s intended for the business, intended for the organization, so that was always a goal of mine, was to keep records that allowed someone to step into my role, or in my absence, take over if needed.

Manuel Martinez: So then, you’re starting to learn all these acronyms, you’re starting to understand, you know, Agile and Scrum, and starting to deal with the developers. In that role, did these, you know, coming from the outside, right? Sometimes I know people who are technical, sometimes they have a bit of that, like, well, you don’t even know IT, like, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Chelsey Bonilla: Yeah. So how did you handle that? Because I’m sure, when you first came in, they’re like, well, who is this person? She has no background, how is she leading us?

Chelsey Bonilla: Yeah, absolutely, that’s a great question, and as a female in the organization, I was the only female in the organization, working with individuals, not only in the United States, but overseas as well, so the development team that I was managing was based in Serbia, and the ability to be vulnerable and honest has been the secret weapon that I’ve seen, is being able to say, I don’t know what this means, I don’t understand, can you explain it to me? And when you have that vulnerability, instead of trying to fake your way through something, I’ve seen that works really well, so in that instance, I remember I was talking to our lead developer about APIs, and I did not understand what APIs were, and he drew it out for me, and I’m very much a visual learner, he drew it out for me, and there was this moment where I was like, oh my gosh, I understand, and just the drawing of it out, seeing the API keys, understanding the passwords, and then putting it all together, it was like this aha moment, where I felt like I was vulnerable enough to say, I don’t get it, you need to explain it to me a different way, and that allowed them to welcome me into the team, to say, she doesn’t have the skills that we have, but she has other skills to offer.

Manuel Martinez: That’s a good point, right? They’re probably teaching you so that you understand it, like, are you gonna be the one developing, and are you building all these APIs? No, you’re not. But for the leadership and being able to make decisions, you have to understand what the problems are, or why we’re going in this direction. So I think that’s important for anybody, whether you’re that technical person, or you’re not a technical person, is saying, hey, I don’t know, help me understand, and I need to know for X, Y, and Z. I’m not trying to take your job, or I’m not trying to be that go-to person, or if you are gonna be that go-to person, it’s like, I wanna be the go-to person to be able to kind of help guide you in the right direction. I don’t know the answer, but I can find it because I know who to ask.

Chelsey Bonilla: And I feel like what’s so common in IT is typically technical individuals rise through the ranks, and then the business is typically guiding decision-making. So that ability to understand technology, but articulate it in a way that individuals in the business can understand, or non-technical individuals can understand, is a true skill and an art. So I think from my perspective, coming from a business background into IT, and building those relationships, to be honest, and say, I don’t understand, has helped me grow in my IT career.

Manuel Martinez: And were they asking you similar questions that you were asking them? Like, you’re asking them technical information. Did that vulnerability also allow them to feel comfortable to ask you? Be like, well, why are we doing this from a business standpoint, right?

Chelsey Bonilla: Yes.

Manuel Martinez: Because a lot of times, you’re technical like, oh, we’re doing it this way because this is how it works, or this is the cool way to do it. Why are you making me do it that way?

Chelsey Bonilla: Absolutely, and I think the shifting gears, all too often in IT, we get set on a path, and then we have to pivot very quickly, and especially from a developer mindset. It’s like, wait, what do you mean? You can’t change what I’m doing. I have a plan, and we’re gonna execute on my plan. So being able to articulate to them, this is why, from a business perspective, this is what’s gonna generate the most amount of money, this is what’s gonna make the most sense, this is what’s gonna be most attractive to investors. I think those conversations were eye-opening for them to say, oh, okay, I’m frustrated, but I understand why we’re pivoting or why we’re changing. So it built this level of trust.

Manuel Martinez: So in this role, obviously, because you kind of stayed in the IT realm, what is it that said, hey, I like this, and I wanna keep growing within this role? Because you mentioned that the MBA, all these other different industries, there’s all these different experiences, what is it that made you say, hey, you know what? I’m gonna continue this path, even though I don’t know, and I didn’t have that experience, I’m learning, but you stayed with it instead of saying, hey, you know what, I tried it, I didn’t like it, let me go do finance instead, or something else.

Chelsey Bonilla: I would definitely say I fell in love with IT. I love the continuous learning nature. I love the community of introverts, as goofy as that sounds. I am able to be an extrovert, but I truly am an introvert, so finding people who are like, I’m good being social, but I also just wanna go home and binge watch TV and read books. I was like, oh, I finally found my people, like this makes sense. So I think being able to continuously learn the evolution of technology and finding a sense of community with people who were similar to me is really what drew me into IT. And then growing in that career, I was three years with that organization. From a startup perspective, I then had my daughter at that point, and the volatility of working in a startup is what shifted me into more of a medium-sized business. So then I transitioned out of the startup into an IT staffing firm, and that was really interesting because I started to learn different roles within IT. So there was a lot of exposure to like, what does a network engineer actually do? What are all these different development languages? What’s a service desk versus an IT tech? So that was a great exposure, and during that time within the IT staffing firm, within the first, I think, month of me starting there, one of the roles that we were recruiting for was an IT project manager for Clark County Elections. And it was a short-term role. It’s very hard to find a project manager who’s willing to work short-term. And I was like, “I’m organized. “Put me in, coach. “I can do it, no big deal.” And so I went onsite to Clark County Elections, and I was like, “Hey, I’m here to be a project manager.” And I just absolutely fell in love with public sector. And I think that was the piece of my career that then translated to my role now that was so essential is I was never, I was actually a practitioner. I was working side-by-side elbow-by-elbow by the systems engineers and the techs and supporting a team of PC techs and senior business systems analysts. So just working within this environment and again, being accepted into the environment and just the propensity to learn, it was such a great experience. And then being able to give back to my home state and my community and my county by working within Elections was such a rewarding experience.

Manuel Martinez: Man, there’s a number of things that I kinda wanna dig into here, but I guess the one that I’ll start with is having only been in the industry for three years, right? With this startup and feeling, especially when you first came in like, “Oh my gosh, I don’t know anything.” What gave you that confidence to say, “I can do it.” Like I understand that when you kind of looked at what a project manager does, and again, I’m not trying to simplify this by any means.

Chelsey Bonilla: Yeah, yeah.

Manuel Martinez: I couldn’t do it.

Chelsey Bonilla: Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: But you’re like, “Hey, I’m organized, I can do this.” But something also gave you, again, that confidence or at least the ability to think, “I can do this, I’ve seen what it is I can go through.” Even though I’ve never technically been a project manager, maybe you’ve managed smaller projects to kinda go through and say, “We don’t need to hire somebody, I can do it.”

Chelsey Bonilla: That’s a great question. Similar to IT, a lot of people fall into IT unintentionally. I’ve heard from a lot of project managers, you fall into project management as well. So it was kind of that, “I’m organized, I’m good at spreadsheets, I’m good at managing people.” Okay, I check most of the boxes, so why don’t I just try this? And I think there was enough faith in me to say, “I think she can do it, let’s let her go try.” So I think there was a little bit of, “I think I can do it, hopefully I can do it,” and kind of thrown into the situation. But also having the confidence from my background, from the people management, throughout my MBA, I learned that I am very organized, which is one of those strengths that I have, which is essential for a project manager. So I think that was a big driving force as well, is knowing that I’m organized, I like spreadsheets, I like managing people, and that kind of naturally led to, “Okay, I think I can do this, give me a chance, I wanna try it.”

Manuel Martinez: And is that something that you feel, you know that, “Okay, I have enough of the skills, I can figure it out.” The reason I ask is, that’s what you’re explaining is me. I’ve gone through a lot of these roles, and I’m like, “Okay, I think I have these skillsets, I’m pretty sure I can handle this.” But I know that if I’m put into that situation, even if I don’t have the skills, well, I’ll figure it out. There’s something in me that says, “Okay, even if I’m not confident from day one, that I can do the job, I know that if you give me the runway, oh, I definitely can do it, and I will exceed whatever the standards are.” Is that kind of what you’re seeing? Because it sounds like as you progress through your career, you’re put in situations that you didn’t know, you slowly start to learn and figure out and say, “Okay, I can do this,” or, “Hey, I can apply this,” and it’s kinda snowballs, is that accurate?

Chelsey Bonilla: 100%, and I think it’s not having that fear and being okay to say, “Yeah, I think I check enough of the boxes that I just wanna try it,” and like you said, if I’m in a situation where I don’t know how to figure something out, I’m gonna figure out a way, whether it’s self-learning, asking questions, being vulnerable, googling it, whatever it will be, I’m gonna figure out a way to accomplish the goal. So I think, especially going, again, back to the MBA, you’re putting a lot of scenarios where you have no idea how to solve a problem. So it definitely honed my problem-solving skills and also increased that confidence to say, “Maybe I don’t know exactly how to do this, “but I’m gonna figure it out, “and if I struggle along the way, I’m gonna ask for help.”

Manuel Martinez: So now you’re in here, you’re a temporary project manager, you’re working for the county for the elections, you start to develop a a love for public sector and kinda helping, and you mentioned community, Vegas and Nevada, just based on your LinkedIn posts, and just talking to you like I can see that, because as someone who’s also born and raised, I wanted to move away a couple times, because you’re like, “Oh, I want these other opportunities. “Something keeps me here,” and then kinda looking back, I’m like, there’s a reason, right? And the IT community is, as big as the city has grown, it’s still a small community.

Chelsey Bonilla: Absolutely.

Manuel Martinez: So now you’ve developed this love, and you’re learning project management, what do you decide at this point that you’re gonna do? Because again, it’s temporary, it’s not like, “Oh, hey, you’re here, do you go back to your staffing? “Do you decide, hey, you know what, “I wanna get involved more in public sector.” What transpired?

Chelsey Bonilla: So, I had a split role during election cycles. I was 100% onsite at Clark County Elections, but I was still an account manager, which was my first time being that role in the IT staffing firm. So I was kind of wearing two hats simultaneously, which was great because it was giving me experience and exposure to account management, which is very much rooted in business relationships and being a support system and being that connective tissue to kind of bring the resources of the business to the client. So I was doing these split roles. Again, my daughter kind of driving some of the decisions that I’m making in life. At this point, she’s about two, and I’m working onsite in an office. And in that startup role, I was 100% remote, and I was remote for three years, which kind of even pre-COVID, I learned to love working remotely for a variety of reasons. And I’m one of those people that will work harder and longer when I’m working from home, because I don’t have to commute. So there’s another 20 minutes that I’m gonna dedicate to working, and I’m definitely one of those people. So there was a pivotal moment where I just made the decision as a mom and as a working mom that I wanted a role that checked a lot of boxes, but was remote. That was really important to me is to find something that was remote. And as a working parent, having that flexibility to drop my daughter off, pick her up if she’s sick, it’s okay to go get her, different things like that. That was really important to me. So I had this little itch in the back of my head that I loved what I was doing, but I needed a role that was a little more flexible to me as a working mom. And so I just kind of serendipitously met someone from consulting while I was onsite at Clark County Elections from an organization called Gartner. And I’m one of those business nerds that when I hear a new business and I’ve never heard of it, I go cyber stalk the business. And I Google them and I look at their value statements and their mission statements and who they are. And I read Glassdoor and the testimonials. I was at this stage in my life where I wanted to find an organization that checked all of the boxes from the values, from the logistics of working from home, from something that’s intrinsically motivating. And so I just did this deep dive into Gartner and I became obsessed, being completely honest. I was like, I want to work there. That is such an amazing organization. I attended webinars of people who worked there. And just, it was a, I distinctly remember it was a panel of women and they had hired a woman who was seven months pregnant. And I was blown away because there’s this stigma that if you’re pregnant, you’re going to take time off. So how could you be hired? And that’s not true for multiple organizations, but just this thing that kind of lived in my mind. I was very worried about if I were to have another child, what’s that going to look like? Is that okay? Can I take time off? So I just became infatuated with Gartner. And I was like, I love this organization. They stand for everything that I stand for. They have high ethical standards, blah, blah, blah, blah, so anyways, fast forward. I fell in love with this organization. And then by, again, fate, I feel like I’m, at the time was the secretary of an organization called SIM, Society of Information Management, which back to your point about the IT community, is a huge piece of the IT community that I’ve built over the last couple of years. And Gartner just happened to be sponsoring this meeting that SIM was having. And I was like, okay, the stars are aligned. Something’s telling me I need to be prepared to meet every person from Gartner there and introduce myself and stand up tall and say, tell me a little bit more about your role. What do you think of the organization? So I openly and honestly cyber stalked everybody who was coming to the meeting, looked at their LinkedIn, did all the learning that I could about them, showed up early to the event, and was just prepared to kind of shoot my shot and see if there was a path in. And me as someone who had never worked for a big organization, had a little bit of a different path, going from operations to startup, to project management, kind of blended. How am I going to get my foot into the door of this $7 billion global organization that is everywhere in IT? And I just didn’t know how to crack that code. It was one of those things I had no idea how to do it. There was no roles available. So fast forward to that SIM event. I introduce myself to everybody. I shake hands, I hand out my business card, I email them that night. Anyone who will talk to me, I connect with them on LinkedIn very strategically. And I just make it known without saying, hi, I want a job, saying I’m very interested in Gartner. And I’m really interested in that organization. So that happened in February, a role popped up two months later. I’m watching the Gartner website, role pops up, I apply for it. I get rejected within three days. And I’m like, is this a sign? Do I need to walk away? Is Gartner not for me? And I get a call a couple of days later from one of the individuals that I had met at that SIM meeting saying, I may have a role for you. It’s not the one you saw on the website. It’s something that’s not open yet. Send me your most recent resume. And so I felt like that was my sign to say, okay, here’s my chance to shine. This is my path in. And that then led to the hiring process at Gartner and the role that I have now.

Manuel Martinez: Before we get into more about that role, there’s a couple of things that I’m probably gonna ask multiple questions around here.

Chelsey Bonilla: Absolutely.

Manuel Martinez: So the first one is, and you touched on it, you became involved in SIM. And at some point, and I wanted to kind of bring that up so it works out perfectly, is how did you get involved with this organization and what made you kind of want to start kind of building that network? Because it is something that’s important. And again, as a recent member of SIM, I just joined this year, that wasn’t something that was, like I didn’t look at and at the time, see the value in it for me. Now also at the time, SIM used to be more for kind of like director level and above, right? So there was that kind of like, hey, it’s closed off. And I was like, I have, you know, and I didn’t know of many other organizations that has since changed. So now it’s more kind of like that professional like engineer, architect and above. But how did you get involved and kind of why?

Chelsey Bonilla: So welcome to SIM.

Manuel Martinez: Thank you. (both laughing)

Chelsey Bonilla: So SIM, I was introduced by the CEO of the staffing company that I was working for. She brought me to a SIM meeting. The first SIM meeting I went to, I met Cynthia Hara, who I know is one of the early on guests on your show. And I remember going to the meeting, there wasn’t a whole lot of attendees then because this was probably about three years ago. And I just remember seeing, you know, people walking up to each other, shaking each other’s hands, giving hugs, asking, hey, how are you doing? Where are you working now? And I remember just watching as kind of a bystander who didn’t know a lot of people in the room, watching the engagements and thinking, oh, this is like a gathering of people who know each other. And it just happens to be around IT and networking and things like that. So I continued to go these meetings over and over again, and I was asked to be the secretary, which was awesome, because it kind of fast forwarded my exposure to SIM. So that was great because I got to learn a little bit more about the organization, where have they come from, what’s the objective, where are they going to? And I think what really cemented it for me was being a part of the golf tournament, the first golf tournament for SIM Las Vegas. I’ve always been someone who likes to help and give back. And again, there was a golf tournament committee. Anybody want to be part of it? Yeah, put me in, coach. I’d love to do it. I’m organized. I can corral people and herd cats. And so I started with the golf tournament, and I remember at the conclusion of the first golf tournament, and I was kind of the person who helped organize meeting notes, registration, different things like that. And I remember seeing 100 plus people in this room, all IT, and just it was the sense of community that came together, and the room just had this electricity about it. And I think that was a moment where I was like, okay, this is something.

Manuel Martinez: These are my people.

Chelsey Bonilla: These are my people. This is a community. I can walk up to people and hug them and shake their hands and say hi. So I think that was my first exposure to networking within the IT community. And I am incredibly grateful and still a member of SIM, and I absolutely love what SIM does for the community. And the third golf tournament, I’ve been involved in all three, including the one that’s coming up in a couple weeks. So I just absolutely love SIM. But I think that piece of building connections within the IT community, like you said, the IT community in Vegas is very small. And being able to have that place where you know you’re going to meet with your people on a regular basis was incredibly helpful for me as I took that step back and said, what do I want next from my career perspective?

Manuel Martinez: And it’s amazing that, like you said, it is that community. It’s the people who know each other. Similar to you being born and raised here, and I’m sure that this might be a similar experience, I would run into people that I knew all over town. And it wasn’t until later on where I started to have more of those same types of interactions, but within IT.

Chelsey Bonilla: Yes.

Manuel Martinez: Whereas before it was just people I went to school with, people that my dad knew, people that, you know, all over the place. So my wife jokes a lot of the time. She says, when we first started dating, she goes, can we go somewhere and you not know someone? (laughing) And I was like,

Chelsey Bonilla: I don’t know about that one.

Manuel Martinez: Probably not. And I told her, like, Vegas is small. And she’s like, it’s a big city. I was like, it’s not as big as you think.

Chelsey Bonilla: Right, yeah.

Manuel Martinez: But IT felt different to me. Like, sure, within the casino, like I said, I knew people that I worked at this casino. I worked in this role, but they weren’t necessarily IT.

Chelsey Bonilla: Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: And in the last few years, I do feel that. I feel like I go now and I probably run in now more to IT people than I do people outside.

Chelsey Bonilla: Yeah, absolutely.

Manuel Martinez: So you’re building this community, and do you think that that came, was this around the same time where you got involved with public sector? Like, is that where, you know, hey, not only do I want to meet people, I’m organized, I can help and provide value, but I get to build this community and it’s within where I live.

Chelsey Bonilla: And I think a big part of SIM, at least when I joined, were public sector employees. So I got to meet different public sector employees and learn about different agencies. And especially as someone born and raised here, you don’t grow up here and think like, how is my government infrastructure supported? Like, those aren’t the questions you ask yourself. So just seeing like, you know, behind the scenes and how powerful and impactful the work that people in public sector, what that means, I think that was just so rewarding for me. And getting that exposure within SIM, even outside of Clark County, but other agencies, building those relationships and understanding the different roles and why they’re important and what they do, that was such a great experience for me as well. Kind of expanding my network and seeing how collaborative and supportive the IT community is in Las Vegas. I think that’s the other piece is, everybody’s rooting for each other. So I mean, you post on LinkedIn and we comment on each other’s posts and you see somebody out and you say, hey, congratulations on that new role. And it’s just very much a community where we know what’s going on in each other’s lives, which I love. I don’t have personal social media, I only have LinkedIn, but I love that that’s my way to share what’s going on in the world with my community. And I love that we all lift each other up and we all support each other.

Manuel Martinez: I think a lot of that, kind of as you’re saying this, I see now where I’ve seen a lot of big companies or I’ve seen a lot of other vendors and stuff like that try to bring people from the outside. And I’m not saying that there are some that are successful and are able to do it because they take the approach of, hey, I really want to understand and I want to be a part of this. But most of the time, and I found out that this is very unique to Vegas is that it’s very, it’s closed off. Like, hey, we’ll support each other, we’ll help you out. But if somebody comes from the outside and there’s this like, hmm, what are you doing here? Like, why are you really here? And maybe they are trying to be part of the community, but there is that guarded, like, I gotta feel you out for a little bit.

Chelsey Bonilla: Within the community, we all know each other so well. So it’s definitely that like, hey, who are you? I’m gonna vet you out a little bit. I don’t know you that well. And I think the unique part about, I know we’re gonna get to my current role, but my current role is supporting public sector in Nevada. So that I feel like is another way that I get to give back to my community is the territory that I manage and the territory I support is only Nevada public sector, which is perfect for me. So again, one of those stars aligning type things where it was like, what do you mean? I get to support the state, the city and the county that I love more than any other place in the world. Like, hello, Dream Job.

Manuel Martinez: So as you’re talking about getting to your dream job, so one of the things that you talked about, and this is kind of the other section I wanted to cover, was you talked about not only with Gartner, but with the people that were involved. And you said, you know, like openly stalking. And I think it’s more doing your due diligence is the way I see it. Because a lot of times, and I’ve seen this and I’ve heard these stories where like, oh, I’d like to work at Gartner and they’ll apply and they’re like, oh, I can’t get in and that’s it. Or, hey, I met somebody and I asked them if they had a role, but nothing came of it.

Chelsey Bonilla: Right, right.

Manuel Martinez: It sounds like you did a lot of the work ahead of time. Like it’s preparation. Maybe it’s part of being organized. Again, I feel like you and I kind of lived a similar career path. Because at some point I was like, I want to work at VMware. And I did the same thing. I researched a lot about them, who worked there. I would see people, you know, at the time, Twitter was a little bit bigger within IT. Who were these people? I was making connections and really started to get to know these people. And I was like, this is where I want to work.

Chelsey Bonilla: Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: You did the same thing, you keep going through and you’re like, hey, I’m going to shoot my shot. But it wasn’t like, well, I’ve never been here and I’m just going to throw stuff. It’s like, okay, hey, I practiced a little bit. I did a little bit of research. And now I’m going to shoot my shot. But like you said, I’m sure that the interactions that you had with these Gartner people was different than if I hadn’t researched it. And I come in like, hey, I’m Manny, tell me about Gartner. Whereas you probably went and was like, hey, tell me about Gartner. And you probably, I don’t know if you did, but maybe said a little something that you had learned. Hey, I recently saw this, or I heard something. So that it shows that you’re like, have a little bit more preparation and you’re not just like, oh, I want to talk to you because you’re a Gartner and that’s it.

Chelsey Bonilla: I think part of the role that I have as an account executive, part of that role is doing your research and knowing the team that you’re working with, the environment, the agency, the state, the laws, what’s important. So kind of going back to preparation for interviewing with Gartner, I was unknowingly kind of modeling some of the behaviors that I need to model within my role. So doing that homework, doing the research, and that really stemmed from my experience in staffing because you could be one of a hundred candidates interviewing for a role. So how are you going to prepare and stand out and be different? And that’s the mantra that I lived by with the candidates that I supported as they were going into different roles. And then when it was my turn to apply for different roles, that was my time to say, okay, well now, you talk about this all the time, you need to do it yourself. So I deep dived as far as I could into who is Gartner, what do they do, who do they support, how do they support those people, what are the values, what’s the tenure of the team and the cyber stalking, I have no shame in my cyber stalking. And when I speak to my mentees or students at Tech Impact, I say, don’t shy away from cyber stalking because that could give you that competitive advantage. Instead of walking up to someone with your name, you’re walking up to somebody with, I have done my research and let me tell you about all the research that I’ve done.

Manuel Martinez: Is that just, again, you being prepared, being that note taker that you wanna understand because it sounds like that constant thirst for knowledge, that’s where it came out. And you almost didn’t really think about it, like, oh, this is gonna lead me to a job. It’s just like, I wanna know everything I can. And obviously it helped you to make a good impression because like you said, you applied, you get rejected, but then a couple of days later, this person reached out to you. So you must have made a good enough impression at that interaction when you met them in person to say, hey, there’s something that I think you would be good for.

Chelsey Bonilla: Kind of going into my present role, it was how much preparation could I do? I knew there was this meeting coming up. I knew it was a SIM meeting sponsored by Gartner. I knew that there were going to be people who worked for Gartner. So how can I put my best foot forward? How much research can I do in advance? Can I follow them on LinkedIn first and then connect with them after the fact? Like, how strategic do I really wanna be about how I’m going to interact with somebody? And that was my chance to kind of show what that looked like, make that impression, and then a couple months later, have that individual reach out to me and he is now my current boss. So he knows I cyber stalked him. It all worked out like it was supposed to. (both laughing)

Manuel Martinez: So now you get into this role, you make this good impression. Obviously you did well enough to go through the interview. Sounds like everything is aligning for you. So what is it that you do in this role and why do you think that it’s the perfect fit for you?

Chelsey Bonilla: Before I go into that piece of the question, I’d love to talk a little bit about the interview process.

Manuel Martinez: Oh yeah, definitely.

Chelsey Bonilla: Because I recently did a talk at Tech Impact where I talked a little bit about kind of networking your way into your dream role. So I felt like at this point, I had the chance. My now boss reached out to me and said, “Hey, if you wanna apply for this role, I think we’ve got something for you.” Nevada Public Sector is the territory, account executive, similar to what I was doing at the previous organization. So it was like all the stars aligned, but I didn’t realize the path into Gartner. So I had seven interviews from start to finish. And that was by far the most interviews, the most rigorous interview process I had ever been through. And I tell that because people listening to your podcast or what I’ve heard from your vision is when you get into those situations and you find that role or you think, what’s the path to get there? I was incredibly intimidated by the seven interview process, but it was also that moment to say, okay, I got myself this far, now I need to get myself over the line. So going through that interview process, I got to interact with a lot of different people within Gartner, including leadership that I now work for currently. And it was again that moment where I realized I was doing exactly what I was supposed to be doing because everybody that I interacted with, I was like, these people are awesome. Like I really wanna work with these people. So it was that motivating, the harder the interviews got, the more motivating it got because I was never, there was never a red flag or a yellow flag or an orange flag where I was like, maybe I don’t wanna do this. It was more reaffirming that I was doing the right things and I was moving in the right direction for a role that I really wanted.

Manuel Martinez: And when you went through this interview process, did they tell you, hey, you’re gonna interview with seven different people or was it more, hey, you’re gonna go through multiple interviews?

Chelsey Bonilla: It was more, you have a recruiter the entirety of the way and they are your guide throughout the process. So that’s great because you have somebody to kind of coach you along the way. They’re not giving you the answers by any means, but they’re walking you through the logistics of what you’re gonna go through. And it’s at least what I’ve heard, similar to large organizations, you see these long interview processes, but people typically stay with these organizations for really long tenure as well. So I always had that in the back of my mind, like, okay, this is a long process. It’s gonna be hard, it’s gonna be challenging, but there’s a reason. This is, there’s a reason that I need to get through these like levels of accomplishment to get to where I wanna go. So going through that process, I interviewed with an HR recruiter, then I interviewed with my manager, then my manager’s manager, then the next level up, then I did a panel interview with the whole team. So it was like those different phased approaches to kind of like video game, you know, unlock the next level. And then when I got to the end, they were the ones who made the decision and I got the call pretty quickly and I was just elated. So it was worth, the juice was worth the squeeze.

Manuel Martinez: And I’m glad you brought up, you know, working with the recruiter, because a lot of times if you haven’t worked with one or you’re not sure, or you think like, oh, well they work for the company, they’re not really advocating for me. Earlier on my career, like I was very standoffish with recruiters until I learned, and don’t I remember, actually I do remember, there’s a guy and he’s still here, but now he moved into, God, it’s Branson. His name is Branson. He was a recruiter for a tech company. And that was the first time when I started interacting with him, because he could tell I was very, kind of little standoffish. I’ll give you information, but I’m not gonna really tell you everything. And he had kind of a frank conversation with me and said, hey, listen, the more, I’m asking you these questions for a reason. He goes, the more that you could give me, the more I can advocate for you. And I was like, well, can you really, you know, blah, blah, you know, just, I I didn’t have that type of information, anybody I could ask. So he was the one that kind of really opened my eyes and said, oh, wait a minute, they do advocate for me, while also advocating for the business, right? They’re trying to fill a role. They wanna find the best person. And if they think that I’m that person, or maybe not for this role, but the more information I can give them, they’ll be like, oh, okay, wait a minute. Manny and Chelsea, like, I know you’re trying to go for this role, but you’ve told me kind of what you do. Let me keep you on the back burner so that when something does come up, now you’re that person. And in a large organization, they’re kind of doing the same. They are vetting you, but they’re there to help you and ask questions. They won’t give you the answers, but they will tell you like, hey, this is, like for me, it was like, hey, you’re gonna go through a technical, you know, two or three technical interviews. Be prepared for those types of things. Hey, be honest. You know, they didn’t tell you that, but it was just kind of like, hey, be honest, you know, answer what you can, but just kind of explain to them. And, you know, they do prepare you. Is that something that you had researched ahead of time and knew that that was a process? Or was that recruiter just that open with you where you’re like, oh, okay, well, I feel comfortable. I’m just gonna kind of let them guide me along.

Chelsey Bonilla: Yeah, I think in my IT staffing role, that was my exposure to recruiters. So as an account manager in that role, I was supporting a team of recruiters that would provide candidates that I would then bring to clients. So that was my first like, dip my toe into what does a recruiter do? So I had a good context on like, what is a recruiter’s role? But going into Gartner, it’s very different because they’re really making sure that you’re a fit. And I love the term advocate. They’re an advocate not only for you, but for the organization, because what good does it do if you put a square peg in a round hole and you don’t work out? It doesn’t help anybody. It leaves a bad impression on you, the candidate. The organization doesn’t have that role filled. So really leaning on that recruiter as an advocate and as a tour guide to kind of say like, okay, we completed step one. What’s step two, three, four, five, and six, and seven gonna look like together? And then from the research perspective, Gartner is very open, honest, and transparent about the process and what that looks like. So they even have like podcasts from current employees on what the interview process looked like. So I remember listening to those podcasts and hearing more about people. And then I would look on YouTube and watch people talk about the interview process. And there’s a variety of roles within Gartner, but the process is very similar. You’re typically going through a six to seven stage process. It typically takes multiple months to get through the process. So I had an idea, but it was, at that point, it was more, how am I going to succeed in this process? And the recruiter was definitely the advocate along the way.

Manuel Martinez: So now you get the great news and you, I’m not gonna assume, I know you accepted the role because you’re there now. So what was it like to kind of go through and again, you have IT experience, you have that account management experience, but now this is different, right? And now it’s almost seems like a combination of all the skills that you’ve been kind of molding, but now you’ve got to put them together. And as much as you’re like, oh, I have this skill, that skill, this skill, that skill, putting them together, that’s got to be a little bit of a challenge, especially coming in to a large organization. So how did you deal with that? And how did kind of the business support you at the same time?

Chelsey Bonilla: So I think first off, it was really hard to leave my previous roles. So I think that was part of it was, I knew that I wanted this role more than anything, but the saying goodbyes was challenging to say, I’m doing this because it’s better for me and for my family. That was a hard piece of it too. But then going into, I’d never worked for a big organization. I always knew every single person who worked in the company that I’d worked with. I was typically the right hand of the CEO for the organizations I’d worked for. And now I’m going into this, 8,000 plus workforce global organization. How am I going to stand out? Like how am I going to do the replicates, the things I’ve done? So I think that was like the scariest part for me is going into this really, really big organization with incredibly intelligent people. I mean, I can’t say enough good things about the caliber of people that I trained with and worked with, but Gartner does a really, really good job of training people. So we went through an amazing training process. And then one thing I love about the organization that as an outsider looking in, what really made me interested was the caliber of people, but the open and honestness to help is something that was important to me. And I still feel that, you know, a year plus into my role, I’ve never had a problem that I can’t ping someone on Teams as a remote workforce or call someone or text someone and say, hey, I don’t know how to do this. Can you help me? So throughout that training period, I think I learned that and that has been ingrained in me that again, I can ask for help. So it was a great process really to get acclimated to this big organization and realize, you know, corporate America isn’t as scary as you think it is. There really is inclusive, supportive and helpful culture within the team that I work with.

Manuel Martinez: You’ve kind of gone through the ranks. You’ve picked up all these skills. You’ve done, you know, work with SIM. You touched on it before where you’re also kind of trying to find other ways to give back. You’ve talked about, you know, you speak at Tech Impact. So it sounds like you continue to kind of give back and help out. And I know that’s part of the reason that you decided to come on and share your story is again, you’re kind of in a small way giving back and, you know, trying to help others as they’re either starting or maybe they’ve been there for 10, 15 years and they’re like, I want more, but I don’t know how. So hopefully this is that catalyst to kind of move on. What other areas that maybe we haven’t touched on that you think like, oh, this is important or hey, we kind of glazed over this area of my career.

Chelsey Bonilla: I think we did a good job to you, credit to you, you know, talking about the full gamut of my career and where I am now. But what I think, especially when I think of like your vision, which you kindly shared with me a year ago of providing exposure to people to understand, you know, there’s not a linear path into IT that you can take twists and turns and you might fall into it and you might not know what your end destination is. But I think what I would love to share is that as a non-traditional IT role an account executive supporting Nevada Public Sector for Gartner, I’m not necessarily a practitioner even though the amazing teams that I get to work with embraced me as if I am one and I’m, you know, members of the team, but just feeling comfortable enough to let the stars align and let fate guide you to what the right role is for you because I’m one of those people who like, okay, I need to make a plan and I’m gonna make a plan and I’m gonna stick to my plan. And then sometimes that can limit that growth. So just being comfortable to say, I’m gonna see where my IT career takes me or I’m gonna see where my career takes me and see where it grows and what it evolves into. And if I think you sit back and let that happen, a lot of times, as long as you’re organized and prepared and a go-getter, you’ll end up in a really amazing place. So I think that’s what I would love to share with the audience is, you know, let the world take you where it’s gonna take you and there could be an amazing outcome at the end of it.

Manuel Martinez: Let it take you where it’s gonna take you, but I think you also very well demonstrated, talked about, you also have to be prepared for when that opportunity comes, right?

Chelsey Bonilla: Yes.

Manuel Martinez: Doing your homework and, you know, doing research on the company, on people, on, you know, organizations and just understanding like what’s available and I think the other thing that, you know, I kind of try to put together is you’re picking up skills in different areas. And like you said, like, it gave you the confidence to say, hey, I can do that because I’m organized, like, I’m sure in the job description, it doesn’t say someone who takes meticulous notes and is very organized, right? Like, that’s not what it is, but understanding how do you read a job description and really know what are they asking? Hey, being able to communicate with people and establish relationships. You learn that, you know, one in that small organization, but when you came in and started leading developers, like being vulnerable, asking questions, you’re like, oh, okay, well, I’m managing a project, that means I’m gonna have to talk to people. Oh, I can do that, I can, will I know exactly how elections work? No, but I can ask questions, I can figure it out and kind of putting all these different skillsets to use because I think that’s the thing that is both fantastic and also probably intimidating about IT is,

Chelsey Bonilla: Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: You can take any skillset, you can come from any other industry and come into IT. But I think at the same time, there’s so much that people are like, oh my gosh, like, I don’t know if I can do this because there’s, you know, there’s so many different avenues or I don’t know what, you know, a network engineer does or a lead developer. Okay, well, especially now, there’s all kinds of resources to kind of research. So how would you kind of summarize that or in your own words say, hey, this is how I did it and this is why it worked for me as kind of like a non-traditional IT path?

Chelsey Bonilla: I think going back to the ability to be vulnerable and say, I don’t know, and especially in IT, even if you think you know, the technology’s probably changing right before your eyes, whether you know it or not. So I think just, you know, putting the ego aside, being vulnerable enough to say, I don’t know the answer but let’s figure it out together or come to your boss or your leader and say, I don’t know, or I always tell people, be okay to say, I don’t know in an interview. When you go into an interview process, if you don’t know an answer, what’s the value of faking your way through it? If they’re then using that key piece to hire you for something you don’t know how to do. So I do feel like the community within IT, a lot of us are able to say, I don’t know the answer but we’re gonna figure it out together and we’re lifelong learners and that’s why we love this industry is because there’s never a dull moment. So I think that’s a big piece of, maybe I’m scared to go into IT, don’t be scared because everybody was probably scared when they started in it, but it’s this thing that once you dive in and you see how vast and how broad and how it touches everything, especially now, I think it’s just such a rewarding experience.

Manuel Martinez: And finding those organizations like SIM, Tech Impact, CyRoot Academy, there’s all these different avenues to meet people to where you feel like, I don’t know.

Chelsey Bonilla: Yes.

Manuel Martinez: This is the perfect opportunity to start asking. So the next time someone runs into you like, hey Chelsea, I saw your story, I have a question about X, Y, and Z or help me understand this or that. But again, doing a little bit of the research because I know that you, similar to me, are very big into mentorship. And I think the mentees that do well are the ones that come prepared and do research, come prepared with questions. I always used to be, because I wanted to give back, I was like, here, here, I would always give that information.

Chelsey Bonilla: Right

Manuel Martinez: And a lot of those mentees I would see would never do anything because it’s one way. And I learned to kind of, like you, let it come to me as soon as I kind of stepped back and all of a sudden they’re like, hey, hey, hey, if you have questions, I will answer your questions all day until I lose my voice.

Chelsey Bonilla: Yeah, yeah.

Manuel Martinez: But I won’t do it the other way. I won’t just preach, preach.

Chelsey Bonilla: Right, absolutely.

Manuel Martinez: So is that?

Chelsey Bonilla: Yes, 100%, I think from a mentor-mentee perspective, my favorite thing is every relationship is different. So you think you kind of systematize the process and you think things might be the same. And it’s definitely, every time you go into that situation where someone’s willing to take you on as their mentor, I’m always open and honest. I’m a non-traditional IT path. I work for an organization called Gartner. I’m an account executive. I’m not a CIO of a company, but I do feel I have value that I can bring to the relationship. These are my skills and what I’m good at, but you tell me what’s gonna help you on your path into IT. And I think, again, being comfortable enough to say, I’m not a true practitioner, but I wanna help you with networking, with the soft skills, with communication, with resume writing, with cyber stalking. I’ll teach you the ropes because those are things you’re going to need to accelerate your IT career. So that’s one thing I love about mentoring is every relationship is different. And within this, our Vegas IT community, I feel like there’s so many people we can kind of bring in and then you see them kind of rise through the ranks I’m thinking of Paola. And she was on your podcast, absolutely amazing. She was my mentee, I don’t even know, two, three cohorts ago from Tech Impact. And just seeing her thrive, that’s where I feel the mentor-mentee relationship is just amazing.

Manuel Martinez: You beat me to it, because that’s exactly what I was gonna bring up is you mentioned, hey, you’re not the CIO, you’re not this, but the value you provide, and I was gonna bring out, she kept, she repeatedly through that episode and like, Chelsea, she’s my mentor, and shout out to Chelsea. And you’re right, seeing her thrive, and I think a lot of that is, one, it’s the value of mentorship, but then also I think it’s the value that you provide because she, I mean, to this day, I’ll run into her and seeing the way that she’s thriving. But again, I think it’s people like you that give somebody like her the confidence. Like, was it always there? Probably, but you kind of help bring that up, help develop it and say, hey, here’s how you go out, here’s how you network. And I see everything that she’s doing. But again, a lot of that is the hard work that she put in, but it’s a testament to people like you that go through and take the time to kind of give back and say, hey, let me help guide you. Here’s what I’m good at. Here’s what I can help you with. If you need technical skills, let me introduce you to the person that could answer those questions.

Chelsey Bonilla: Absolutely, and I think that was my, again, bringing it back to my MBA for me, that was my confidence building moment. That was my 18 months where I built confidence where other people mentored me and said, you can do anything that you want. Just go out there and try it. So then imparting that onto my mentees from Tech Impact and saying, we’re a group of introverts and some of us are awkward and it’s okay to be awkward and weird and have weird hugs and post on social media and be vulnerable. And those are the things that I think they hear that, they see someone who’s in a role that they’re happy with and they’re successful at, and they’re like, oh, okay, I can be my own self, I can be natural, I can do what I think is best. Put that out there and use that to leverage betterment in my career.

Manuel Martinez: Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to, stop overthinking and come on and share your story. So hopefully it was a good experience for you. And I know that there’s a lot of value provided in kind of sharing your story and your journey for others.

Chelsey Bonilla: Thank you. And I just wanna give a shout out to Manny because you are absolutely amazing. And I just think the fact that you putting yourself out there with your vision in Career Downloads and seeing how it translated into the success that you just had at the Top Tech Awards, that’s a testament to you. So thank you for everything that you’re doing. And I’m honored to be a guest on the podcast.

Manuel Martinez: Well, I appreciate it.

Chelsey Bonilla: Thank you.

Manuel Martinez: And for everybody that continues to watch and listen and keep supporting what we’re trying to, help others accomplish within their careers, thank you so much for everything that you do. And please continue to plug in and download the knowledge. And until next time, thank you. Hey. See, it wasn’t so bad. I’m so sweaty, Manny. No, it was good. It felt good. the way that the camera’s positioned, you have room to move. Okay. I, I mean, we’ve talked about ADHD, so you’ll see. Yeah, same. And I’ll do this, I’ll do this, I’m moving around. Yeah, like what do I do with my hands? And I talk with my hands, and I just, again, it, I think that’s one of the things that people like, is because it feels natural. Like, you can see, I’m like, wait a minute. Yeah. Like, oh, tell me more about this, so you’ll see. And that’s okay. It’s perfectly fine. Yeah. It’s not like, Chelsea, I need you to be, Right, that’s why I can move, and take a sip while you’re speaking, because that’s okay, okay. Yep, all that’s okay. And I meant to take one last peek. From a timing perspective? Yeah, well, timing as far as recording. Yeah. So luckily I have that clock right there. Oh, okay, good. So you can– So I sit there and I just like, I kind of peek down and I tried a digital clock, but that didn’t work for me. Yeah. Which is weird. Really? I don’t get a sense, like I know the time, but then I’ve got to kind of do math. Oh, so you watch the clock, so when it gets to the three again, that’s when you’re like– Well, I’m like, or once it gets like to the 12, I’m like, okay, I got 15 minutes, I can start to kind of– Wrap it up. Get close to wrapping it up. Okay. I found, and I see a therapist for the ADHD and the kind of help out. People with ADHD have a hard time with the concept of time. Like if I tell my wife, like, hey, we got to leave in 10 minutes, she can read a book, she can do something, she’s like, okay, minutes, let’s go. You tell me I’ve got 10 minutes, and it’s funny because I saw Trevor Noah. He put something, he’s like, people with ADHD, it’s either now or not now. If you tell me, hey, we have 10 minutes, 10 minutes is not now, so I have all the time in the world. So for some reason, seeing the hands move, like I get a better sense, like, oh my God, it’s been 15 minutes, oh, it’s been an hour. Where if I see a digital clock, I know the time’s there, I do the math, oh, it’s been 15 minutes, but the concept of how much time– The completion of a– Of an hour or 15 minutes moving, it just, it doesn’t work. Interesting. And I didn’t realize that until afterwards, and she was like, hey, have you ever tried like an analog clock? Yeah. No, she’s like, try that and see what happens. And sure enough, just– Watching it. Watching it because I have a timer, so I’m like, okay, I’m gonna do this for 30 minutes, and I’ll do it for 30 minutes, and it goes off. But I have one of those in my office, so that as I’m sitting there watching, I’ll look up, and I’m like, oh my gosh, I can see time moving, whereas with a clock, or a digital one, it’s just– You have to do that calculation, right? That calculation, whereas this way, I see time is actually moving. Digital clock, oh, the numbers are moving, who cares? I’m gonna try to that. like that.